June 30, 2008 - Meeting with the Mayor
Community Power will be meeting with the Mayor this evening at his office. We will be revisiting several agenda items that were part of our intitial meetings with him several months ago. We have also extended the invitation to Chief Osborn, Sgt. Alvarez, Officer Martinez (Sgt Martinez?) and Lisa Clifford of www.support287g.com. Several "pre-meetings" have spontaneously taken place in an effort to set expectations for the 6pm meeting, and it has been extremely positive to see the dialog (in the truest sense) which seems to be the growing intention of both sides as we begin to open up and discuss the issue collaboratively.
We are excited to work through the things that divide us so that we all can implement that which is only attainable by us working together. And I believe that Suffern is about bust open with creative ideas, online communities, new technologies, new green solutions, and ultimately a growing and healthy community of active and contributing citizens. And when all is said and done regarding the 287g issue, it doesn't matter who was for it or who was against it. It is about whether or not there is true integration of ALL citizens in Suffern such that there would be no fear of abuse or mismanagement regarding something like the implementation 287g.
Most importantly, facilitating a better relationship with Latinos in Suffern will only strengthen our overall citizen network of awareness and collaboration. Lisa of www.Support287g.com, we really hope you can make this meeting. We are dying to meet you! :)
Sincerely,
Community Power
Monday, June 30, 2008
Wednesday, June 18, 2008
Response To Support287g.com Posting: "Updates support287g.com"
We are pleased that a dialog is beginning between our two platforms. I wouldn't necessarily peg us as an anti-287g movement. We are an educational platform who has come to the following logical conclusion based on the information we have been able to find on this issue both from outside sources and internally from the Village of Suffern. I would suggest one more step in a more successful way in which to dialog about this issue. Open online forums on both our sites and a blog on Support287g.com. This way both sides can comment real time on each others findings while making your valuable information available to not only those on your email distribution lists but for the public to chime in who may not have an opinion in the matter, yet. Also, Support287g.com should really post my submitted comments to put into perspective your comprehensive response.
You wrote (in italic):
"Mr. Gutierrez, Thank you for your positive comments on our website. I have had a chance to look at your site and it is the opposition to the Federal Program 287(g). Our site, support287g.com, was created to support the Program as it moves forward. The Program 287(g) was not created for the purpose of racial profiling. The Federal Government has given local administrations and law enforcement additional means and another avenue to enforce the law. By continual reference to profiling made by the opposition, it IS creating a fear in the undocumented communities. Anyone living in the Village of Suffern should not live in fear. It is for the CRIMINAL Illegal alien. The illegal CRIMINAL need not remain among the people they have no respect for."
Response to above paragraph: If its cool with you, you can call me Dave. And I saw the latest email by Support287g.com. Was it necessary to put my name in big bold letters? This issue is not about any one person. It's not about Biensy, and it is most definitely not about a white, unshaven guy like me. I would like to have a conversation regarding your thoughts in my next blog. And kindly, thank you for the mention.
Sincerely, Community Power is thrilled that you agree that 287g is NOT an illegal immigration initiative. We totally agree that it is, in fact, an initiative to remove violent criminals that are not documented citizens of the U.S. However, when many Suffern residents made it an issue of "illegal latino immigrants" at the public meeting, it was the Latinos that emerged in an effort to set some boundaries around its implementaton. Funny thing is, Communitypower.tv is not a Latino platform. We intend to review many different issues in Suffern, like the new development of this 440 unit condo project at our recently sold gravel quarry. Doesn't that just feel like there is more to that issue? Also, we intend to spin off the Latino platform to its own section of the site called "Poder de Communidad" (spanish for community power). We wanted to clear something up based on one of the emails you sent out describing us as supporting crime by not supporting 287g. Please...help us in curbing this perception as NO ONE in our community wants that at all. Thank you in advance for clearing that up.
Your site makes reference to 2 towns where the program was not received well or implemented. There are currently 47 active 287(g) Memorandum of Agreements (MOA’s), nearly 700 officers have been trained and certified through the 287(g) program and there are more than 90 pending requests as of April, 28, 2008. Sr. Fran Gorsuch of Good Samaritan Hospital met with Chief Osborn; please speak to him for an updated on that meeting.
Our Response: We do not argue the updated facts above regarding the number of agencies adopting or in the process of implementing 287g, but there is much more conversation about the facts of how 287g has negatively effected nearby towns/villages that tried or even adopted this program. Again, we are not coming out and saying "287g is wrong" based solely on its social impact. It is bad for many other reasons. Simply do a case study on Danbury, Connecticut and see how 287g has devastated this community. Here is an affluent community whose residents include people like Martha Stuart (at least that was what I heard). The impact on the downtown businesses has been devastating. It is worth looking into. Also, could you give us an update as to the meeting with Osborn and Good Samaritan Hospital. I do not have any information on that.
Your post states “We will continually dissuade individuals that we feel are leveraging this issue incorrectly on the "con" side of 287g”. Each time a reference is made to profiling, it implies that this is not a welcoming Village, that people are afraid to live here. You further state: "How we integrate will determine the greatness of our village." Help to maintain the history of this Village and Town not implied badness. Using profiling as the opposition to 287(g) is the fear we are speaking of. This community is aware of many different types of immigrants around us who are producing and creating good things for us here. Your site is concerned about the Latino community. This program does NOT target a particular community; it targets CRIMINALS of all origins who are here illegally.
And, thank you for being professional and correcting my typographical spelling error of the word "disuade". :) But we mean it. If there is someone who is against 287g that is taking advantage of the situation to create fear around this subject, we will deal with it quickly. Again, a lot of the fear the Latinos are feeling is based on some current experiences they are having with the code enforcers, one of which created a website that had been calling for the INS to sweep Suffern for years. AND, the Mayor and Osborn have not delivered on their promises to this community. Trust exists until it is broken. No word from the Mayor or his brother-in-law regarding soccer fields and soccer leagues, No word from Osborn regarding a liason between Latinos and the police, where Latinos could begin to report all the crime they see, but have been to afraid of deportation to report it.
The Latinos where very disappointed after an encounter with Sgt. Alvarez at the street fair when we asked him the status on our recommendation that he be the liason between Suffern police and the Latino Community. He actually seemed genuinly unfamiliar with the conversatoin. Sgt. Alvarez, do you understand the privilege it is for a culture of people to request that you to be their voice? It makes perfect sense. You are better at understanding Spanish then you are speaking it. Your meant to hear their hearts in their native tongue, with the responsibility to communicate it to those who can now become intimate with the cultural issues surrounding 287g. Your absence in this role has greatly effected the progress of healing this issue.
Also, when we asked you if Chief Osborn was working on his promise to deliver this long standing request, and you said that you where out of the loop (paraphrasing). Chief Osborn, we have you on tape at one of our meetings offering different solutions that you have not delivered on. Why shouldn't Latinos be suspect of what you are saying based on what you are not doing. We are not busting your stones, we want you to live up to your word. A meeting is being organized with the Mayor immediately to understand where he is at with his promises as well.
Lisa. Respectfully, Suffern is not integrated. Diverse we are. Integrated we are not.
The only people who should be concerned to live here are CRIMINALS who are illegal. If they commit and are convicted of a felony they will be sent back to their place of origin. There will receive due process, upon completion of their sentence they will be deported not released back into our community. It is a wiser use of taxpayer money.
There is no hatred toward Biensy Rosa; there is opposition to her position. Her contribution to the community as a merchant is welcome. We cannot censor the blogs especially anonymous comments. We do not agree with any rude or derogatory comments. We expect people to use the power of the petition and their right to vote as means to communicate their position.
We thank you again for your positive acceptance to our site and service of education. We look forward to the acceptance of the Program 287(g) and what it offers to all.
Our response: Suffern is like Pleasantville. I can't think crime is attracted to our village. Crime is not attracted to a 2.5 block chill downtown with a police force of 40 police officers of 7 Sgts., bike cops, beat cops, a killer canine unit, a deuce of Harley Davidson cruisers, and, I'm guessing, 7 or so other cruisers with Headquarters holding it down by one bad ass Chief of Police. Not to mention our dozen or so auxillary police force. And it appears that they are currently deporting 8-9 individuals as we speak. It appears that the deportation process for violent criminals and non-violent criminals is working without 287g. I think this has been our point all along.
In regards to some of your latest communications, thank you for making this about 287g and not the individuals who are contributing to the process of getting the information out, like yourself and Biensy. We realize you cannot police all of the crap that you see on the Lohud message boards, but chiming in once in a while to show disapproval to worthless rhetoric is key. And although I applaud your total belief in 287g, I don't believe that it is actually sustainable on the village level. Out of all the people who adopted it, I don't believe any villages of our size actually have done it. I could be wrong.
Thank you for responding to our post. Click here to see our original post.
Suffern is awakening.
Community Power
You wrote (in italic):
"Mr. Gutierrez, Thank you for your positive comments on our website. I have had a chance to look at your site and it is the opposition to the Federal Program 287(g). Our site, support287g.com, was created to support the Program as it moves forward. The Program 287(g) was not created for the purpose of racial profiling. The Federal Government has given local administrations and law enforcement additional means and another avenue to enforce the law. By continual reference to profiling made by the opposition, it IS creating a fear in the undocumented communities. Anyone living in the Village of Suffern should not live in fear. It is for the CRIMINAL Illegal alien. The illegal CRIMINAL need not remain among the people they have no respect for."
Response to above paragraph: If its cool with you, you can call me Dave. And I saw the latest email by Support287g.com. Was it necessary to put my name in big bold letters? This issue is not about any one person. It's not about Biensy, and it is most definitely not about a white, unshaven guy like me. I would like to have a conversation regarding your thoughts in my next blog. And kindly, thank you for the mention.
Sincerely, Community Power is thrilled that you agree that 287g is NOT an illegal immigration initiative. We totally agree that it is, in fact, an initiative to remove violent criminals that are not documented citizens of the U.S. However, when many Suffern residents made it an issue of "illegal latino immigrants" at the public meeting, it was the Latinos that emerged in an effort to set some boundaries around its implementaton. Funny thing is, Communitypower.tv is not a Latino platform. We intend to review many different issues in Suffern, like the new development of this 440 unit condo project at our recently sold gravel quarry. Doesn't that just feel like there is more to that issue? Also, we intend to spin off the Latino platform to its own section of the site called "Poder de Communidad" (spanish for community power). We wanted to clear something up based on one of the emails you sent out describing us as supporting crime by not supporting 287g. Please...help us in curbing this perception as NO ONE in our community wants that at all. Thank you in advance for clearing that up.
Your site makes reference to 2 towns where the program was not received well or implemented. There are currently 47 active 287(g) Memorandum of Agreements (MOA’s), nearly 700 officers have been trained and certified through the 287(g) program and there are more than 90 pending requests as of April, 28, 2008. Sr. Fran Gorsuch of Good Samaritan Hospital met with Chief Osborn; please speak to him for an updated on that meeting.
Our Response: We do not argue the updated facts above regarding the number of agencies adopting or in the process of implementing 287g, but there is much more conversation about the facts of how 287g has negatively effected nearby towns/villages that tried or even adopted this program. Again, we are not coming out and saying "287g is wrong" based solely on its social impact. It is bad for many other reasons. Simply do a case study on Danbury, Connecticut and see how 287g has devastated this community. Here is an affluent community whose residents include people like Martha Stuart (at least that was what I heard). The impact on the downtown businesses has been devastating. It is worth looking into. Also, could you give us an update as to the meeting with Osborn and Good Samaritan Hospital. I do not have any information on that.
Your post states “We will continually dissuade individuals that we feel are leveraging this issue incorrectly on the "con" side of 287g”. Each time a reference is made to profiling, it implies that this is not a welcoming Village, that people are afraid to live here. You further state: "How we integrate will determine the greatness of our village." Help to maintain the history of this Village and Town not implied badness. Using profiling as the opposition to 287(g) is the fear we are speaking of. This community is aware of many different types of immigrants around us who are producing and creating good things for us here. Your site is concerned about the Latino community. This program does NOT target a particular community; it targets CRIMINALS of all origins who are here illegally.
And, thank you for being professional and correcting my typographical spelling error of the word "disuade". :) But we mean it. If there is someone who is against 287g that is taking advantage of the situation to create fear around this subject, we will deal with it quickly. Again, a lot of the fear the Latinos are feeling is based on some current experiences they are having with the code enforcers, one of which created a website that had been calling for the INS to sweep Suffern for years. AND, the Mayor and Osborn have not delivered on their promises to this community. Trust exists until it is broken. No word from the Mayor or his brother-in-law regarding soccer fields and soccer leagues, No word from Osborn regarding a liason between Latinos and the police, where Latinos could begin to report all the crime they see, but have been to afraid of deportation to report it.
The Latinos where very disappointed after an encounter with Sgt. Alvarez at the street fair when we asked him the status on our recommendation that he be the liason between Suffern police and the Latino Community. He actually seemed genuinly unfamiliar with the conversatoin. Sgt. Alvarez, do you understand the privilege it is for a culture of people to request that you to be their voice? It makes perfect sense. You are better at understanding Spanish then you are speaking it. Your meant to hear their hearts in their native tongue, with the responsibility to communicate it to those who can now become intimate with the cultural issues surrounding 287g. Your absence in this role has greatly effected the progress of healing this issue.
Also, when we asked you if Chief Osborn was working on his promise to deliver this long standing request, and you said that you where out of the loop (paraphrasing). Chief Osborn, we have you on tape at one of our meetings offering different solutions that you have not delivered on. Why shouldn't Latinos be suspect of what you are saying based on what you are not doing. We are not busting your stones, we want you to live up to your word. A meeting is being organized with the Mayor immediately to understand where he is at with his promises as well.
Lisa. Respectfully, Suffern is not integrated. Diverse we are. Integrated we are not.
The only people who should be concerned to live here are CRIMINALS who are illegal. If they commit and are convicted of a felony they will be sent back to their place of origin. There will receive due process, upon completion of their sentence they will be deported not released back into our community. It is a wiser use of taxpayer money.
There is no hatred toward Biensy Rosa; there is opposition to her position. Her contribution to the community as a merchant is welcome. We cannot censor the blogs especially anonymous comments. We do not agree with any rude or derogatory comments. We expect people to use the power of the petition and their right to vote as means to communicate their position.
We thank you again for your positive acceptance to our site and service of education. We look forward to the acceptance of the Program 287(g) and what it offers to all.
Our response: Suffern is like Pleasantville. I can't think crime is attracted to our village. Crime is not attracted to a 2.5 block chill downtown with a police force of 40 police officers of 7 Sgts., bike cops, beat cops, a killer canine unit, a deuce of Harley Davidson cruisers, and, I'm guessing, 7 or so other cruisers with Headquarters holding it down by one bad ass Chief of Police. Not to mention our dozen or so auxillary police force. And it appears that they are currently deporting 8-9 individuals as we speak. It appears that the deportation process for violent criminals and non-violent criminals is working without 287g. I think this has been our point all along.
In regards to some of your latest communications, thank you for making this about 287g and not the individuals who are contributing to the process of getting the information out, like yourself and Biensy. We realize you cannot police all of the crap that you see on the Lohud message boards, but chiming in once in a while to show disapproval to worthless rhetoric is key. And although I applaud your total belief in 287g, I don't believe that it is actually sustainable on the village level. Out of all the people who adopted it, I don't believe any villages of our size actually have done it. I could be wrong.
Thank you for responding to our post. Click here to see our original post.
Suffern is awakening.
Community Power
Thursday, June 12, 2008
Is There No Dialog In Suffern Regarding 287g?
How can there be education without dialog?
CommunityPower.tv has repeatedly tried to reach www.support287g.com via their "guestbook message" section of their website. We were attempting to open a channel of communication with them to dialog about the 287g issue. We are concerned that they are not engaging the rest of the community by posting our congratulations for joining the discussion about 287g, and to open a direct line of communication between our two platforms.
Lisa (Administrator of www.support287g.com), we appreciate the freedom of individuals to believe in the things they believe in. However, if our two sides (and there are many more of us on both sides) not open to dialog about this issue online and in public, then we both are just two online platforms hiding behind our login and passwords.
We feel that a "real" open forum regarding 287g should be sponsored by our two platforms, it is essential. Did you know that we originally had a private meeting between the Mayor and Osborn regarding our concerns with 287g, long before the public meeting? In fact, we suggested in that meeting not to bring any lawyers (both sides). Well, it was the Mayor who decided to make it a public forum which did not allow us to present to him, privately, many issues like:
1. the ongoing code enforcement 4th Ammendment violations occuring with our code enforcement officers
2. the fact that our community wanted to support community policing efforts by reporting ongoing crime (immigrants to afraid to do so)
3. the insertion of a Latino liason between the police department and our immigrant community
4. our willingness to help in clean up efforts around town
5. the fact that we started a campaign to minimize bicycle and loitering on the sidewalks
6. repairing the cultural differences of Latino men whistling at pretty women (young and old)
7. any understanding of what else it was we could contribute to our community
Instead, a public meeting was held, offering only 2 minutes a piece for our community to talk (with his lawyer doing the talking). In fact, we made the decision that this was not the place or time to bring these things up and still instisted that many of these issues be handled privately with the Mayor. Unknown to most people, only 3-4 people in our group spoke at the meeting. And, as you know, we presented a file of over a month of research dissecting 287g from a legal, financial and social standpoint. It contained case studies of other towns who implemented 287g with invitations to meet with these individuals. We never heard back regarding that file.
We believe in our heart of hearts, that a public forum should be held allowing both sides to present their information without interruption and without passion. Pure information and research. No politicians and no meeting at Village Hall with dozens of plain clothed cops in the audience. Let the responsibility lie on CommunityPower.tv and Support287g.com to get the information out effectively to our community. We are convinced there is information on BOTH sides that neither one of us is hearing. What if WE THE PEOPLE came to a conclusion about how 287g should either happen or not happen in Suffern. Besides, if the Mayor is doing this for the people, then why not let the people figure out "what" and "how" we want him to do this. Imagine if we came to a solution of how to bring 287g to our town with many other checks and balances in place to make sure that all of the immigration abuses you hear about did not happen in Suffern? Is it possible? We don't know till we talk about it.
Hearing that our Chief of Police is spending an enormous amount time getting a pro 287g petition signed BY EMPLOYEES OF THE VILLAGE seems slighly unethical on a couple of fronts. 1. No one wants to "upset" the Chief of Police? Especially when you work with him day after day. Are Village employees feeling pressured to sign? 2. Shouldn't the head of our law enforcement be more sensitive about the community collective then trying to push through, what is appearing to be, a very personal and passionately pursued intiatiative by him? How are immigrants supposed to get involved in community policing if the perception is that he is the one "trying to get run them out of town"? Again, I am stating a perception, but in politics and local governement, these things are important indicators of a community's (un)balance.
Support287g.com + CommunityPower.tv = A Powerful and Informed Community
Community Power
info@communitypower.tv
CommunityPower.tv has repeatedly tried to reach www.support287g.com via their "guestbook message" section of their website. We were attempting to open a channel of communication with them to dialog about the 287g issue. We are concerned that they are not engaging the rest of the community by posting our congratulations for joining the discussion about 287g, and to open a direct line of communication between our two platforms.
Lisa (Administrator of www.support287g.com), we appreciate the freedom of individuals to believe in the things they believe in. However, if our two sides (and there are many more of us on both sides) not open to dialog about this issue online and in public, then we both are just two online platforms hiding behind our login and passwords.
We feel that a "real" open forum regarding 287g should be sponsored by our two platforms, it is essential. Did you know that we originally had a private meeting between the Mayor and Osborn regarding our concerns with 287g, long before the public meeting? In fact, we suggested in that meeting not to bring any lawyers (both sides). Well, it was the Mayor who decided to make it a public forum which did not allow us to present to him, privately, many issues like:
1. the ongoing code enforcement 4th Ammendment violations occuring with our code enforcement officers
2. the fact that our community wanted to support community policing efforts by reporting ongoing crime (immigrants to afraid to do so)
3. the insertion of a Latino liason between the police department and our immigrant community
4. our willingness to help in clean up efforts around town
5. the fact that we started a campaign to minimize bicycle and loitering on the sidewalks
6. repairing the cultural differences of Latino men whistling at pretty women (young and old)
7. any understanding of what else it was we could contribute to our community
Instead, a public meeting was held, offering only 2 minutes a piece for our community to talk (with his lawyer doing the talking). In fact, we made the decision that this was not the place or time to bring these things up and still instisted that many of these issues be handled privately with the Mayor. Unknown to most people, only 3-4 people in our group spoke at the meeting. And, as you know, we presented a file of over a month of research dissecting 287g from a legal, financial and social standpoint. It contained case studies of other towns who implemented 287g with invitations to meet with these individuals. We never heard back regarding that file.
We believe in our heart of hearts, that a public forum should be held allowing both sides to present their information without interruption and without passion. Pure information and research. No politicians and no meeting at Village Hall with dozens of plain clothed cops in the audience. Let the responsibility lie on CommunityPower.tv and Support287g.com to get the information out effectively to our community. We are convinced there is information on BOTH sides that neither one of us is hearing. What if WE THE PEOPLE came to a conclusion about how 287g should either happen or not happen in Suffern. Besides, if the Mayor is doing this for the people, then why not let the people figure out "what" and "how" we want him to do this. Imagine if we came to a solution of how to bring 287g to our town with many other checks and balances in place to make sure that all of the immigration abuses you hear about did not happen in Suffern? Is it possible? We don't know till we talk about it.
Hearing that our Chief of Police is spending an enormous amount time getting a pro 287g petition signed BY EMPLOYEES OF THE VILLAGE seems slighly unethical on a couple of fronts. 1. No one wants to "upset" the Chief of Police? Especially when you work with him day after day. Are Village employees feeling pressured to sign? 2. Shouldn't the head of our law enforcement be more sensitive about the community collective then trying to push through, what is appearing to be, a very personal and passionately pursued intiatiative by him? How are immigrants supposed to get involved in community policing if the perception is that he is the one "trying to get run them out of town"? Again, I am stating a perception, but in politics and local governement, these things are important indicators of a community's (un)balance.
Support287g.com + CommunityPower.tv = A Powerful and Informed Community
Community Power
info@communitypower.tv
Monday, June 9, 2008
Where Should Undocumented Criminals Go?
This Entry is in response to the comments below by subscriber Nicole. Thank you Nicole for making the connection.
This is what you wrote:
"U claim that u want criminals off the street, if not deported where do u suggest illegal alien criminals go..'cause either way tax payer's $ is going to be spent..yes families are going to be disrupted , that is why as adults we should think of consequences when we do certain things..also aren't victims families get disrupted/destroyed when act of violence is committed to their loved ones ?"
Nicole,
Great question. And I think it is a question that reaches to the heart of the platform message the Mayor and Chief are trying to convey. How do we get violent non-documented criminals out of our community? The question I would ask back to everyone as we try to come to this conclusion is "what is currently not working in the "system" such that a non-documented violent criminal is able to return to the community after getting out of jail?"
I interviewed an individual that is supportive of 287g coming to Suffern. And, he works in our jail system (County, I think). He told me that even when an undocumented violent criminal serves out their sentence for their violent crime, that a deportation warrant is waiting to be executed upon their release from prison. In essence, they "do the time for their crime", then it's back to the country of your origin once your jail time is served. HOWEVER, he told me that when the jail system calls the immigration agency (ICE) to pick up the criminals for deportation, 90% of the time (I'm guessing a little lower) they tell him that they are unable to afford the resources (personnel) necessary to pick up the detainees. The final instruction set from U.S. Immigration is to "let them go."
So sometimes, 287g feels like filling a car up with gas that has a huge hole in the gas tank. Suffern can identify violent non-documented criminals and put them in jail, and even under 287g, prepare them for deportation. But, deportation may not even happen because the Federal government is financially extended into the war (3 Trillion Dollars Spent), bailing out a crashing economy, food shortages, real estate meltdown, natural disasters, $4 gas, energy outages, and a planet that is warming, etc.
Additionally, the jail system is TOTALLY LIABLE for the health care and mental well being of each detainee. Just like Guantanamo Bay (the only example of socialized health care in the US). In addition to this, many jail systems would have to build extensions onto their facilities to even facilitate the additional detainees (tax dollars). Do you think 287g will end in Suffern? So why has Suffern decided to SUE the Rockland County Correctional facility (I think I heard this) for not taking our immigrant detainees resulting from our need to implement the 287g program? And how much money is this going to cost us in legal fees, and who is this going to tick off in the long run? Even the Ramapo Sherrif is totally against 287g in Suffern.
What I do know is that most everything we need to begin the deportation process (database access, a hotline to ICE, current jail facilities, etc.) is already in place. And, when all is said and done, I think the misconception is that 287G will actually facilitate the removal of these violent criminals from our community. And even if 287g creates a larger network of ICE agents to police non-documented violent criminals (not illegal immigrantation in general), then who is going to pay for the shipment of the criminals when the government says it cannot pick them up? Suffern (our taxes)? Our jail system (our taxes)?
And then there is the tragedy of abusive deportation issues popping up everywhere. We will save this for another discussion, but aligning with 287g puts Suffern in that light immediately. And, when you realize that 25% of violent crime in Suffern was created by illegal immigrants, and that all violent crime came to 4 occurances (1 out of 4 - 25%), and that crime is decreasing overall, you have to ask yourself if implementing 287g is the smart move? Also, we heard that the "peeping tom" incident in the ball fields was a minor (17 or under), another area that 287g is not very clear on.
Where should we send non-documented violent criminals? We have found that most everything is in place to deport violent non-documented criminals. How has suffern been doing it over the years? What has really changed in the last couple of years to warrant something like 287g? Doesn't it feel like the acceleration 287g in Suffern is going be a long, expensive, legal journey that will ultimately lead to some inevitable broken link in the process. And what seems ironic in all of this is that a few Latinos have been afraid to report crime or issues that concern them based on their current connection to the police and Suffern government. So, is it possible that 287g is actually hindering the aprehension of criminals by removing the trust factor with a segmnent of our community that has eyes and ears all hours of the day?
NIcole, the last part of your posting discussed the families of the victims. People make bad decisions and people get really hurt. Things like drunk driving and then hitting a house swirls a mixture of emotions in our community. Yet, I would like to think that a totally cohesive community removes the types of pressure and personal pain that cause people to harm others by making bad decisions. Anyway, thank you for contributing to the dialog and listening to my very LONG response. I think it got a tad off track. Let us know if we did not answer this to your satisfaction. By the way, Community Power meetings every other Wednesday. It's not just about Latinos! It's about the power of the community collective.
Community Power
This is what you wrote:
"U claim that u want criminals off the street, if not deported where do u suggest illegal alien criminals go..'cause either way tax payer's $ is going to be spent..yes families are going to be disrupted , that is why as adults we should think of consequences when we do certain things..also aren't victims families get disrupted/destroyed when act of violence is committed to their loved ones ?"
Nicole,
Great question. And I think it is a question that reaches to the heart of the platform message the Mayor and Chief are trying to convey. How do we get violent non-documented criminals out of our community? The question I would ask back to everyone as we try to come to this conclusion is "what is currently not working in the "system" such that a non-documented violent criminal is able to return to the community after getting out of jail?"
I interviewed an individual that is supportive of 287g coming to Suffern. And, he works in our jail system (County, I think). He told me that even when an undocumented violent criminal serves out their sentence for their violent crime, that a deportation warrant is waiting to be executed upon their release from prison. In essence, they "do the time for their crime", then it's back to the country of your origin once your jail time is served. HOWEVER, he told me that when the jail system calls the immigration agency (ICE) to pick up the criminals for deportation, 90% of the time (I'm guessing a little lower) they tell him that they are unable to afford the resources (personnel) necessary to pick up the detainees. The final instruction set from U.S. Immigration is to "let them go."
So sometimes, 287g feels like filling a car up with gas that has a huge hole in the gas tank. Suffern can identify violent non-documented criminals and put them in jail, and even under 287g, prepare them for deportation. But, deportation may not even happen because the Federal government is financially extended into the war (3 Trillion Dollars Spent), bailing out a crashing economy, food shortages, real estate meltdown, natural disasters, $4 gas, energy outages, and a planet that is warming, etc.
Additionally, the jail system is TOTALLY LIABLE for the health care and mental well being of each detainee. Just like Guantanamo Bay (the only example of socialized health care in the US). In addition to this, many jail systems would have to build extensions onto their facilities to even facilitate the additional detainees (tax dollars). Do you think 287g will end in Suffern? So why has Suffern decided to SUE the Rockland County Correctional facility (I think I heard this) for not taking our immigrant detainees resulting from our need to implement the 287g program? And how much money is this going to cost us in legal fees, and who is this going to tick off in the long run? Even the Ramapo Sherrif is totally against 287g in Suffern.
What I do know is that most everything we need to begin the deportation process (database access, a hotline to ICE, current jail facilities, etc.) is already in place. And, when all is said and done, I think the misconception is that 287G will actually facilitate the removal of these violent criminals from our community. And even if 287g creates a larger network of ICE agents to police non-documented violent criminals (not illegal immigrantation in general), then who is going to pay for the shipment of the criminals when the government says it cannot pick them up? Suffern (our taxes)? Our jail system (our taxes)?
And then there is the tragedy of abusive deportation issues popping up everywhere. We will save this for another discussion, but aligning with 287g puts Suffern in that light immediately. And, when you realize that 25% of violent crime in Suffern was created by illegal immigrants, and that all violent crime came to 4 occurances (1 out of 4 - 25%), and that crime is decreasing overall, you have to ask yourself if implementing 287g is the smart move? Also, we heard that the "peeping tom" incident in the ball fields was a minor (17 or under), another area that 287g is not very clear on.
Where should we send non-documented violent criminals? We have found that most everything is in place to deport violent non-documented criminals. How has suffern been doing it over the years? What has really changed in the last couple of years to warrant something like 287g? Doesn't it feel like the acceleration 287g in Suffern is going be a long, expensive, legal journey that will ultimately lead to some inevitable broken link in the process. And what seems ironic in all of this is that a few Latinos have been afraid to report crime or issues that concern them based on their current connection to the police and Suffern government. So, is it possible that 287g is actually hindering the aprehension of criminals by removing the trust factor with a segmnent of our community that has eyes and ears all hours of the day?
NIcole, the last part of your posting discussed the families of the victims. People make bad decisions and people get really hurt. Things like drunk driving and then hitting a house swirls a mixture of emotions in our community. Yet, I would like to think that a totally cohesive community removes the types of pressure and personal pain that cause people to harm others by making bad decisions. Anyway, thank you for contributing to the dialog and listening to my very LONG response. I think it got a tad off track. Let us know if we did not answer this to your satisfaction. By the way, Community Power meetings every other Wednesday. It's not just about Latinos! It's about the power of the community collective.
Community Power
Friday, June 6, 2008
Welcome New Visitors
Thank you Suzan Clarke of the Journal News for bringing awareness to the different groups of people who have come together around the 287g issue in Suffern (pro and con). Click Here for Article
For those just joining our site, Community Power (CP) is a collective of people from throughout the community who are coming together to dialog on various issues, to effectively exercise our rights of free speech and to take action on the things we collectively feel need to change. We first came together to discourage the 287g initiative because we felt that it was an unhealthy move for Suffern. Research into "what" 287g is, and "why" Suffern is doing it, "who" it is going to be effected by it and "how" - is the basis of our dialog surrounding 287g coming to Suffern.
We are firm believers that people should get all perspectives on an issue. We are excited that active citizen groups in Suffern are using the web to optimize their cause. A new site has launched supporting 287g in Suffern - www.support287g.com.
Below is one of our favorite links of information regarding 287g. It provides a well rounded summary regarding 287g. It is written in question and answer form and is very informative: Click Here
The Community Power collective wants ALL violent criminals off the street. We don't understand where the confusion is regarding our point of view on that. Our research and study of cities who have done this or tried to implement 287g indicates that 287g is more than "we want violent criminals off the street and 287g will do that". There is a lot more issues that come with the 287g "solution". Suffern needs to really think this out and bear witness to other cities and towns who attempted to or sucessfully implemented 287g who are now advising against it.
Suffern is finally talking and using new online technology to do it. Let's both commit to one pricipal as we both discuss the issues. Present information not altered by bias or passion. Case in point, let's not get the petition signatures from people who you see posting rude comments under each article that comes out about immigration on Lohud (see above link). The attacks on Biensy Rosa doing this so she can get cheep labor for her business is hateful and very uniformed. Many businesses in Suffern have solicited the assistance of this labor force. Many of which are pro 287g. Let's have smart dialog, it is our responsibility as online and live platforms.
Peace and blessings.
Community Power / Poder de Communidad.
For those just joining our site, Community Power (CP) is a collective of people from throughout the community who are coming together to dialog on various issues, to effectively exercise our rights of free speech and to take action on the things we collectively feel need to change. We first came together to discourage the 287g initiative because we felt that it was an unhealthy move for Suffern. Research into "what" 287g is, and "why" Suffern is doing it, "who" it is going to be effected by it and "how" - is the basis of our dialog surrounding 287g coming to Suffern.
We are firm believers that people should get all perspectives on an issue. We are excited that active citizen groups in Suffern are using the web to optimize their cause. A new site has launched supporting 287g in Suffern - www.support287g.com.
Below is one of our favorite links of information regarding 287g. It provides a well rounded summary regarding 287g. It is written in question and answer form and is very informative: Click Here
The Community Power collective wants ALL violent criminals off the street. We don't understand where the confusion is regarding our point of view on that. Our research and study of cities who have done this or tried to implement 287g indicates that 287g is more than "we want violent criminals off the street and 287g will do that". There is a lot more issues that come with the 287g "solution". Suffern needs to really think this out and bear witness to other cities and towns who attempted to or sucessfully implemented 287g who are now advising against it.
Suffern is finally talking and using new online technology to do it. Let's both commit to one pricipal as we both discuss the issues. Present information not altered by bias or passion. Case in point, let's not get the petition signatures from people who you see posting rude comments under each article that comes out about immigration on Lohud (see above link). The attacks on Biensy Rosa doing this so she can get cheep labor for her business is hateful and very uniformed. Many businesses in Suffern have solicited the assistance of this labor force. Many of which are pro 287g. Let's have smart dialog, it is our responsibility as online and live platforms.
Peace and blessings.
Community Power / Poder de Communidad.
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